Grostenquin France

I have some vague memories of what took place during the closure of 2 Wing Grostenquin. In an attempt to gather more detail, I sent an email message to a number of RCAF personnel who were in 2 Wing at the time of the closure asking for their assistance. My email message was as follows:

1 – September 1963 was a normal month and all the kids went back to school.

2 – I seem to recall that in the October-November 1963 time period, there were rumours to the effect that the station was going to be closed. Senior Officers attempted to contain or squelch these rumours with a series of meetings held for military and civilian personnel in the Station Theatre.

3 – The rumours seemed to die down and I recall having something of a normal Christmas and New Years (December 1963) holiday period.

4 – All of a sudden – out of the blue – in February 1964 we were advised that "Yes" the station was being closed effective 1 April 1964.

5 – This would have lead to a mass scramble – postings for personnel, departure of their families, the sale of trailers, the sale of furniture and effects for those who lived on the economy, the disruption of kids being taken out of school and moved elsewhere – and so on and so on.

I was very fortunate in being able to remain at 2 Wing until 15 July 1964.

Do you happen to have any memories of the build-up to the closure, the rumours, the closure itself, your departure etc.? If so – would you please share these with me so I can put together an article dealing with the closure of 2 Wing Grostenquin.

Comments by Don Ball – As to the closing of the base, us workers out in the boon docks, the hanger line, never heard a thing about this until the one big general announcement. Then the confision set in at a much greater than normal level. Any one near the normal departure time to go home was told then, and given less than the normal bare minimum time to get their gear, homes, kids, cars to Le Harve for shipping all ready to depart. The management did their usual darn little to assist. Postings and Carreers must have been going through Hell, unless they knew about it all months in advance. I do not remember the time frame, but some how we did manage to gather all our bits and pieces together and were posted to Marville. People must have known, as they had a PMQ all ready for any one who wanted one. We went to some strange place where the entrances to the PMQs were not called cages. It was our second move inside of as a year, so we did not have much chance to put down many roots. I can remember the then Premier of Ontario sent all us "fighting men" in Europe a free package of players cigarettes, and a bottle of Labats beer. People smoked the cigs, which were selling for 10 cents at the bar, but no one would drink that lousy Canadian beer when we all drank very good German beer for two bits. The bar tender pleaded with me to take a case home in January to drink or pour down the drain. All he wanted was the empty bottles. We obliged.

Comments by Ted de Boucier – My, but you have a way of dealing with ancient memories. I remember the rumours of a planned closure and the attempts to squash them but the time frame doesn't come to mind. I was with 109 KU and we were dumped out to 1 Wing early in the process. The move was topped off very quickly with news that a lot of us were being released early. On April 20 or 21 of 1964 I called in to see I could have an extra day off to spend with a chum in Ramstein (HQ 4 ATAF) and was told that as of 22 July I could take all the days off that I wanted as I was to be released at Trenton on that date. We had departure dates well in advance of our flights but had to take cars (and in my case a small camping trailer) to Le Havre for trans-shipment. Because we had to return by train we left our son at home in the care of a neighbour.When we returned we were busy packing for a week then off to Marville to live in temporary quarters converted from barracks and eating out of the mess. I don't remember for how long but about a week. Most of us had family still at 2 Wing and Marville was short of accommodation so we commuted (about 80 clicks as I remember it) on days off and weekends. I sold my trailer (a 32 foot President) to someone for the price I paid (US $800) and it was towed to Marville just as I was leaving for repat. I understand that due to age, static condition for a long time and French roads most of the trailer moves did not go off without incident. We flew out of Marville and landed in Trenton. I got to Montreal somehow and recovered my household effects, car and trailer without much hassle except from customs. They were suspicious because we were all returning (legally) with a lot of stuff and a few had tried to smuggle booze in hoses and empty radio casings. We drove to Trenton and camped (I think at Brighton) while I commuted each day for in-clearance then out-clearance and a few commiserating libations with troops in the same boat. We were all aircrew who had more than 5 years in but no PC or were within 2 years of CRA.

Comments by Alvin Erickson – I thought it very curious that the curling rink (and hockey rink?) were built just before the Wing closed. I don't believe anyone used it. We left in August 1964. I watched them dismantling the 601 Squadron Microwave tower, the place where I worked for quite a bit of my time at 2 Wing. We rented a little French car from someone on the base after ours was shipped and I remember commuting back and forth from our temporary quarters in the PMQs in St. Avold the last week or so before we got on the Yukon and headed back to Canada. I had bought and shipped a 1963 VW station wagon back to Canada. Remember the packing boxes? The stress of the move was very high especially with two young children under 3 years of age. I had gone through the interview process for UTPM at 2 Wing and I recall it was a G/C Johnson who interviewed me and that happened before notice that the Wing was closing.Our trailer in the "new" trailer court couldn't be sold on site and there were so many on the market that it was not easy to sell to those at 1 Wing, so I had to leave it with a fellow worker (LAC or Cpl Dubois) who was posted to 1 Wing. He made sure that I received a cheque when it was sold to someone at 1 Wing. I am truly thankful that he was there and was willing to take the responsibility. It was sold for a lot less than it would have been worth if it could have been sold on site at 2 Wing. I can't remember the exact figure but it seems to me we paid $3300.00 and it sold for something in the order of $1500.00. The extension that I had built on to it was added expense for which I was not compensated. Today I'll bet there would be a good package for people caught in similar circumstances through no fault of their own.

Comments by Bob Hallowell - Memories! I was responsible for opening up the Mission Planning/Target Intelligence section for the 104s. After Big Charlie said "no Yankee nukes" I knew our days were numbered (fall of '63.) A major rebuild of the 421 dispersal building was about to start, along with the doomed simulator building, curling rink (even after it had collapsed once) etc. The 421 building was mine so I went to the WingCo and asked for some changes to the plan as I knew this would delay the start of construction. He told me my neck was out a mile, however two weeks later we got the word "everybody out!" I was moved to the HQ building to run a shut-down plan, which worked out OK so they shipped me to Marville to start the Mission Planning for the Recce Ops. When we closed the O Mess I had to write off some furniture I had busted as an F/O in 1952! Cheers...

Comments by Bill Milner – I vividly recall the closure. I had bought a trailer in early 1963, thinking that I, like the other owners, would sell after a four year stay and make a tidy profit. My trailer became worth next to nothing overnight when the "rumour" was made official. The person that bought my trailer (for a song) had it moved to 3 Wing directly after my wife and I left the base for Canada in June 1964. The trailer was a thirty two footer and believe it or not the tires, which had been partially buried in the earth for about ten years, were still inflated and the tow truck pulled it all the way to 3 Wing without a problem.

Comments by Marc Terreau – Official closing on 31 March 1964 but immediately after the announcement the Officers’ Mess changed its monthly dues to $1.00 with free entertainment most nights. It certainly made the closing angst bearable. There was even a raffle of items that belonged to the Mess and not the RCAF. We still have a damaged silver tea set that we won with a $1.00 ticket. On 31 March 1964 I flew Dakota #662 with Flying Officer Ralph Carlson as First Officer as the last transport flight out of Grostenquin. The Wing Instrument Flight took off in a T-33 at the same time. However, that was not the end of 2(F) Wing. I might add that I had a near miss with a F-104 flown by “Chops” Viger that afternoon but that is another story for another day.The shuttling of personnel and their families was another story all of itself. We lived in the trailer park located on the Wing itself. These were relatively small British made trailers on which a small extension had been built. Most trailers no longer had their wheels. Luckily, ours did not have an extension and still had its own wheels thus the towing of our trailer to Marville would prove relatively easy. I have no real recollection of the preparations made in Marville to accommodate us because of my flying activities. However, we soon learned that a new trailer park would be established at Marville to accommodate most of us. The late John Leiper, a tech rep for Lockheed, was heavily involved as our mayor. While this was going on, most of us aircrew ended up living in quarters in Marville and travelling home to Grostenquin when off duty. Meanwhile, there were a large number of “shipwreck” parties of those left in the trailer park. Just bring your dinner, whatever you were cooking, and your wine. It was really like a big family; everybody helped each other. The technical problems with the trailers were many. Firstly, not all of them had wheels. Many had expensive extensions that could hardly be moved. Secondly, we were told that the RCAF simply did not have the resources to move the trailers. To do so through a French contractor would have likely been far too expensive for our means. Somehow, and I have no idea how, someone approached the US Army and asked for support. As I remember it, the US Army provided us with trucks capable of towing the trailers and carrying our effects. Even most of the extensions could be carried as well. The cost would be for us to put gas in the tanks and take care of the drivers. The first was easy and the second resulted in a whole bunch of overfed and hung over drivers who kept asking for more tasking.In the end, we were trading trailer wheels for weeks on end. Not all wheels fitted all trailers of course. We made it to Marville with our own set of wheels, then loaned them to a few folks. Finally, they came back and were the reason we managed to sell our trailer in 1967 when Marville closed. After the base closed we use the airfield to practice poppy drops. 1964 was the 20th anniversary of the Normandy landings. It was decided to drop poppies from a Dakota on the beaches on 6 June 1964. I flew in the three-plane formation that did that. There were many other drops as we followed the Canadian progress till May 1965 making drops at various Canadian War Cemeteries. In order to get it right, we would fly to Grostenquin and drop poppies until the French Air Force told us to stop because we were littering! Pictures were taken of the ramp and aircraft at 109 Comm. Flight prior to the closing. After the Bristol Freighters from 103 Comm. Flight in Langar UK joined the unit it became a Composite unit thus the designation changed to 109 KU. Copies will come in the mail.Then there were the parties to say farewell to one and all. How my liver survived is simply a mystery. They were happy and exiting times but we also had very sad moments. We cannot think of Grostenquin without thinking of the loss of a Bristol Freighter of 109 KU on final approach at Marville. Many others died in car crashes. There were simply too many funerals for such a tight family. Marc Terreau, a then Flying Officer

Comments by Bob Tuttle – I scanned through your e-mail and what you have seems to be on the money. I will have a careful read and between my wife and myself we might fill in a little. While I think of it, there was the matter of the curling rink being officially opened about two weeks after the official announcement of closure. This was after they had fought for one for fifteen years. That was a bit of irony. Sort of like the refitting of the Bonnie at a cost of eleven million and then selling her for scrap eight months or so later (for $250,000). Like they didn't know she was being decommissioned. Another thing that just shot through the grey matter was the multiple parties we had while we were trying to eat up the NPF funds prior to losing them at closure. As I remember, there was never a rank difference, everyone was welcome. Those parties were a lighter side to a sad event. Regarding the 2 Wing closing - these thoughts are more personal than general but I had a choice of going to either 3 Wing or 4 Wing, because I had only been in Grostenquin for about a year. I chose 3 Wing Zweibrucken and reported there around the end of March 1964. My wife and infant son, Robert, stayed at the station trailer park at Grostenquin until July 1964. The Sergeant that I worked for in 3 Wing was a super guy and as he was single and not going anywhere anyway, he took my call on Wednesdays and weekends, so that I could come home. There was no room for more units at the 3 Wing trailer park so they build a new one to accommodate the 45 that come from the 2 Wing station trailer park and the one down in the village of Grostenquin. The trailers all went to the bomb dump at Zweibrucken and stayed there until late September 1964 when the new park was finished. We moved into our tent at a camping park at Homburg, not far from the base, and stayed there until late August. Imagine camping with a seven month old for six or seven weeks. I look back at it as a bit of an adventure now. We were lucky that the weather was very good for most of the time. In September 1964 we moved into a PMQ when one of the Corporals in the section went on leave to Ireland. The day before he came back we moved over to my bosses PMQ for a couple of weeks, so we were pretty lucky there beacuse the weather went bad. It was great getting back into our trailer around 1 October 1964. The group spent the rest of the fall fixing the place up before winter. We went back to Grostenquin sometime in 1965, hoping to get on the station for a looksee but the French military guards said "Non". It was a sad looking place even then after a year. I think some of the buildings were taken down and the place just looked unkept. I always felt that RCAF Stations had a heart and soul and it breaks my heart to see them abandoned. People lived and thrived and sometimes died at these units and now they all seem forgotten and the grass is growing up through the cracks in the runway where those beautiful Sabres used to fly.